Lots of talk about Mad Men and the treatment of women during the ice-clinking, smoky bar, burning the midnight oil, hat-wearing era. I love the show, and I love the fact that such sexism seems absolutely impossible to the many of teens in my life. They simply can’t believe it was really like that “back then.” But you needn’t travel back to the 1960s to experience such brash disrespect and injustices directed at many, in fact, most, women. Some subtle, most not. Back then, in fact, wasn’t so very long ago. Seems everybody’s got a story.
When my clever, self-proclaimed feminist male boss interviewed for my replacement during maternity leave in 1992, he hired a capable, experienced advertising writer from ‘the city,’ aka New York. (The Only City if you live anywhere on the East Coast. Sorry Boston, Philly, and DC. But really, you gonna argue?)
Women Getting the Shaft: Circa 1990s
1. This real writer also happens to be drop dead beautiful, which did not go unnoticed during her interview process. ‘You are really so gorgeous, it wouldn’t hurt a girl like you to put your photo on your resume.’ He at least read her clips.
2. During the same pregnancy, I was to travel to an ob/gyn conference to help hawk medical textbooks. My ob was attending the same conference and I had medical permission to attend. The sales director, however, thought differently. “You have a baby to think about now. You need to be home, focusing on that.”
3. And finally, from the same employer: I wrote copy regarding a gynecology text, highlighting thorough breast exams. The editor threw it back at me, saying ‘take the boob copy out; don’t you know your anatomy?’ Not sure when his last pap smear was, but at mine, there was a breast exam.
The fact that I was actually writing, and not fetching coffee, does show we had evolved somewhat (although I did do so for my first 3 jobs in the city). I presume it’s a process, but need it take so long?
More, more, more. Too many more.
- There’s also my friend Kym, the baseball mom, who majored in engineering even though the high school counselor and college advisor told her it was a male profession (mid-80s).
- And my sister, the horse trainer, who drives a huge duelly truck, and is ridiculed for being too good lookin’ to be driving a truck (2008).
- Another sister (2007), who is an athletic director and constantly asked by coaches and parents to speak to the AD.
- Editors offered to walk me home (1989), making the hair on the back-of-my-neck send out aptly received warning shots about the skeeveballs.
- Creative director who said at initial meeting (1997). ‘Not what I expected. You have a pretty good ass for having 3 kids.’
- Writer friend interviewed for staff position (2009) and was asked how old her kids were (illegal, but prevalent). When she answered, the interview ended when the resume was handed back across the desk and she was told, ‘You’re not ready. Go home.’
And then there’s today. Where people look at this 46-year-old mom, and add a little ageism (this is old?) and family-ism to the mix making it a real feat to reenter the workforce that’s come so far. And if you think there’s no discrimination against hiring people with a family, you haven’t been on an interview yet.
How ’bout you? Did you – or do you – experience any Mad Men-like sexism? How has it changed? Please, please tell me it has changed.
okay. had a boss once ask if i was married. then moved closer and said, “what kind of MARRIED?”
Ahhh, the glory days at A&L! Did I know this drop-dead beautiful writer? I was so naive back then (although a certain hubby would say I still am) and just happy to have a writing job of any kind…thanks to you!
Definitely not as bad as our moms experienced. Hopefully our daughters will do better than we do, and our grandaughters even better. That’s what we strive for, isn’t it?
Not recently, but I was just having the chat with Sexy Hubby at the conclusion of Mad Men last night…not so sure Peggy would have been a copy writer in a high position then??
KT
http://www.AnAuthenticLife.com
Silly boys trucks are for girls!
How about the CFO of my old company following all the girls around commenting on their jeans on jeans day
Incredibly timely post, all over the news today was Anita Hill and Clarence Thomas, it was 19 years since her testimony
Anita Hill. Brave and brilliant. Maybe Thomas’s wife is ill… sure seems it. Can you imagine if Thomas came out and apologized instead? That’s a game changer right there.
Anita Hill gave credence to all the shit we put up with, and made harassment very public. She paid a price, but so that we can file complaints and out violators.
Great post, loved the real life examples. If we each sat in a room we could give many more and that shows we may not be as far ahead as we would like to believe. Gains over decades is hard for me to celebrate. I’ve experienced less pay for same job, fought with banks to get the same respect males in my life received with similar earnings and more. Trying to remain hopeful though for future generations of women 🙂
Thx Jennifer…this generated lots of conversation, most so frustrating I could spit. Story after story of life in the 90s, when we thought we’d come so far, but instead were still suffering greatly. Just because it’s better, doesn’t mean it’s not bad. I can’t imagine its much better today. Ugh.
I have not experienced much male intimidation but you really hit the head on the nail for me about mom discrimination. We won’t get a full handle on all this until value is place on that role in our society. This will have to be taught from one mother to one son. It can get better but until then we remain…the ultimateoutcasts.
I work in a hospital and because I am a female it is always assumed that I am a Nurse, when I explain my REAL job, from the men I get “well that’s kind of like being a Nurse.” Yeah like as in not at all. So you can keep fighting the good fight but most of the guys see us as good for one thing only ?(cooking?)
@scan(wo)man keep fighting the good fight, and get into a workplace that appreciates your genius, patient care, and experience. pisses me off that you’re not recognized as VIP extraordinaire everyday you step into work.
As always, an honest and timely piece, Kate. In the past week, I’ve sent out a zillion resumes and been on about 5 interviews. Only one failed to ask me how I plan on making it to the office and/or appointments on time if I have 3 kids. Probably highly illegal (I’ve been in charge of hiring in several jobs, I know what you can and can’t ask), but even more so, definitely not a place I want to work.
I work in marketing – and there is still PLENTY of it. Women are always ‘the girls’. And the girls are expected to do things like schedule meetings (and doctor appointments) for the owner and clean up the breakroom. I’ve gotten ahead, in part, by refusing to do either.
Me to! I write/market for a car dealer (good ol’ boys for sure) and the sexist ridiculous comments from guys young enough to know better make my eyes roll back. I call them out on it each and every time. They hate me, and I am so okay with that.
FYI: Just read The Best of Everything (rona jaffe 1950s novel) about working girls in NYC. AWESOME, and at the same time, so depressing that really, not that much has changed, just implied.
thx for the comment!